Kat and her husband Jay reside within the Okinawa Prefecture of Japan the place Jay is stationed as a Captain within the U.S. Marine Corps. They’re childfree by alternative and have an lovable canine named Sadie. Though they’re simply 29, they’ve been diligently saving, investing and planning for the date when Jay will get out of the army.

Their aim is to succeed in monetary independence by that deadline, which is now 5 to eight years away. Kat would love our assist figuring out if this can be a cheap aim and, if not, recommendation on what they need to do to make it possible.

What’s a Reader Case Examine?

Case Research handle monetary and life dilemmas that readers of Frugalwoods ship in requesting recommendation. Then, we (that’d be me and YOU, expensive reader) learn by means of their state of affairs and supply recommendation, encouragement, perception and suggestions within the feedback part.

For an instance, take a look at the final case examineCase Research are up to date by contributors (on the finish of the publish) a number of months after the Case is featured. Go to this web page for hyperlinks to all up to date Case Research.

Can I Be A Reader Case Examine?

There are 4 choices for people excited about receiving a holistic Frugalwoods monetary session:

  1. Apply to be an on-the-blog Case Examine topic right here.
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  3. Schedule an hourlong name with me right here.

→Undecided which possibility is best for you? Schedule a free 15-minute chat with me to be taught extra. Refer a buddy to me right here.

Please observe that house is proscribed for the entire above and most particularly for on-the-blog Case Research. I do my greatest to accommodate everybody who applies, however there are a restricted variety of slots out there every month.

The Purpose Of Reader Case Research

Reader Case Research spotlight a various vary of monetary conditions, ages, ethnicities, places, targets, careers, incomes, household compositions and extra!

The Case Examine sequence started in 2016 and, so far, there’ve been 102 Case Research. I’ve featured of us with annual incomes starting from $17k to $200k+ and web worths starting from -$300k to $2.9M+.

I’ve featured single, married, partnered, divorced, child-filled and child-free households. I’ve featured homosexual, straight, queer, bisexual and polyamorous folks. I’ve featured ladies, non-binary of us and males. I’ve featured transgender and cisgender folks. I’ve had cat folks and canine folks. I’ve featured of us from the US, Australia, Canada, England, South Africa, Spain, Finland, the Netherlands, Germany and France. I’ve featured folks with PhDs and folks with highschool diplomas. I’ve featured folks of their early 20’s and folks of their late 60’s. I’ve featured of us who reside on farms and folk who reside in New York Metropolis.

Reader Case Examine Tips

I most likely don’t must say the next since you all are the kindest, most well mannered commenters on the web, however please observe that Frugalwoods is a judgement-free zone the place we endeavor to assist each other, not condemn.

There’s no room for rudeness right here. The aim is to create a supportive surroundings the place all of us acknowledge we’re human, we’re flawed, however we select to be right here collectively, workshopping our cash and our lives with optimistic, proactive solutions and concepts.

And a disclaimer that I’m not a educated monetary skilled and I encourage folks to not make critical monetary selections primarily based solely on what one particular person on the web advises. 

I encourage everybody to do their very own analysis to find out the perfect plan of action for his or her funds. I’m not a monetary advisor and I’m not your monetary advisor.

With that I’ll let Kat, as we speak’s Case Examine topic, take it from right here!

Kat’s Story

Hello Frugalwoods! I’m Kat, I’m 29, and my husband Jay is sort of 29. We’re childfree and have one adopted canine named Sadie. We at present reside in Japan the place Jay works as a US Marine Corps Captain. We met in 2015 on a examine overseas journey, bought married in 2017, and have moved 9 occasions since then! We like to journey, hike and camp, snorkel within the ocean, go on lengthy walks with our canine, watch motion pictures, and skim.

What feels most urgent proper now? What brings you to submit a Case Examine?

After I initially utilized for a Reader Case Examine, Jay had a one-hour commute to work on prime of an extended work day. He was waking up at 4am and getting residence between 7 and 10 pm. We’ve since moved and he now has a 20 minute commute! So, that’s one main downside solved.

The opposite primary problem is that I would love us to be financially unbiased by the point Jay will get out of the army in 5 to eight years. I would like us to have choices, fairly than feeling like we have to bounce into new careers the second he leaves the army. As we close to this self-imposed deadline, the aim is feeling increasingly more daunting.

We need to benefit from our restricted time in Japan – touring, having cultural experiences, and spending time in nature. However this conflicts with our bigger aim of eager to be financially unbiased.

Publish-Army Life Plans

Jay would want to serve for 20 years in an effort to get a pension. We’re as an alternative hoping to fund our personal retirement so he doesn’t want to remain in that lengthy. He loves what he does, however it’s draining. After he leaves the army, we might want to buy our personal healthcare. With out a pension or incapacity discharge, Jay gained’t be eligible for VA care. He’s open to serving within the reserves, which might proceed his healthcare.

We aren’t positive the place we need to cool down. Ideally, we’ll journey full time for a number of years after Jay will get out of the army. Some states we’re contemplating for our residence base are Oregon, Washington, Montana, Vermont (or one other northeastern state), and Minnesota. We’d like a progressive group close to climbing trails with housing that we will afford. We’d love solutions! Our households are fairly scattered now, so we doubtless gained’t reside close to most of them.

What’s the perfect a part of your present way of life/routine?

We love the place we reside. We’re very privileged to get to reside in a lovely place and expertise a brand new lifestyle.

I’m additionally having fun with my free time. I’ve primarily labored as a author previously. I most lately labored as a kitchen assistant at a buddy’s restaurant, however resigned as a result of our latest transfer. So, I’m at present between jobs, as one would possibly say. I’m utilizing this time to maintain the entire home labor and life administration duties, be taught the Japanese language, spend time in nature, and skim. Now that we’ve got web at our new home, I’ll attempt to choose up some freelance work with a former employer, however I’m not but positive the way it will work out with the time zone distinction between the US and Japan.

What’s the worst a part of your present way of life/routine?

Jay’s troublesome job and lengthy work hours. What little time we’ve got collectively is usually spent resting and making ready for the following week. We’re on reverse ends of the spectrum proper now – he’s overworked and drained, whereas I’m in want of social time and a problem.

The place Kat Needs to be in Ten Years:

  • Funds: Financially unbiased, dwelling comfortably off of our investments.
  • Life-style: Touring typically with a house base within the states. A number of high quality time collectively.
  • Profession: Pleasurable part-time work, volunteer work, homesteading, and/or a artistic interest enterprise that we run collectively.

Kat & Jay’s Funds

Revenue

Merchandise Variety of paychecks per yr Gross Revenue Per Pay Interval Deductions Per Pay Interval (with quantities) Internet Revenue Per Pay Interval
Jay’s Revenue 12 $9,638 taxes: $1,226
life and dental insurance coverage: $43
TSP contributions: $1,864
TOTAL deductions: $3,133
$6,505
Annual web complete: $78,048

Money owed: $0

Property

Merchandise Quantity Curiosity/sort of securities held/Inventory ticker Identify of financial institution/brokerage Expense Ratio Account Sort
Joint Brokerage Account $183,256 VTSAX, some VTIAX Vanguard 0.0004 Investments
Thrift Financial savings Plan $105,239 C Funds The Federal Retirement Thrift Funding Board 0.0006 Retirement
Excessive Yield Financial savings Account $40,170 Earns 4.75% APY CIT emergency financial savings
Kat Roth IRA $26,057 VTSAX Vanguard 0.0004 Retirement
Jay Roth IRA $23,041 VTSAX Vanguard 0.0004 Retirement
Brokerage Account $10,044 Mutual funds Vanguard 0.001 Investments
Checking Account $4,710 Earns 0.01% APY Chase Checking
TOTAL: $392,517

Automobiles

Automobile make, mannequin, yr Valued at Mileage Paid off?
2001 Daihatsu Mira Gino $1,800 87,000 Sure
2004 Mitsubishi Pajero Mini $2,700 87,000 Sure
Complete: $4,500

Bills

Merchandise Quantity Notes
Housing $1,900 lease, insurance coverage, trash, gasoline, electrical, water, web (paid in yen)
Journey $546 flights, airport parking, lodging, canine sitter, transit
Groceries $459
ATM Withdrawals $160 Money remains to be broadly utilized in Japan. Used for points of interest, occasions, and small eating places.
Family Items $133 family necessities, cleansing provides, furnishings, gardening
Eating places $121
Cell Telephones $108 supplier: SoftBank
Auto $99 Two vehicles and two drivers. Private Injury Legal responsibility Insurance coverage (PDI), Japanese Obligatory Insurance coverage (JCI), annual highway tax, toll highway charges, US driver’s license renewal charges, upkeep
Canine Care $71
Charitable Giving $63
Subscriptions $62 Apple Music, iCloud storage, Hulu, Duolingo, Microsoft, VPN
Clothes & Sneakers $55
Leisure & Hobbies $54 portray class, bowling, movie show, cultural occasions, snorkeling and climbing gear, guide membership books
Private Care $51
Gasoline $49
Well being Insurance coverage $0 lined as a part of Jay’s compensation
Month-to-month subtotal: $3,931
Annual complete: $47,172

Credit score Card Technique

Card Identify Rewards Sort? Financial institution/card firm
Capital One Quicksilver Money Again Capital One
US Financial institution Money+ Money Again US Financial institution
Chase Freedom Limitless Money Again Chase
Chase Freedom Money Again Chase

Kat’s Questions For You:

  1. Does it appear possible for us to “retire” between the ages of 34-37? Or at the very least get out of the army at that age and each work part-time?
  2. If not, what do we have to in the reduction of on to attain this aim?
  3. What sort of paid work ought to I pursue subsequent? Any solutions for timezone-flexible distant work?
  4. How can Jay and I higher join throughout occasions once we’re on reverse ends of the work/life stability spectrum?

Liz Frugalwoods’ Suggestions

Kat and Jay carry us an fascinating Case Examine as we speak and I’m excited to dig in and see what’s doable for these two! They’ve made glorious frugal selections over time, as evidenced by their lack of debt and spectacular web value. Let’s get proper to Kat’s questions!

Kat’s Query #1: Does it appear possible for us to “retire” between the ages of 34-37 (in 5-8 years)? Or at the very least get out of the army at that age and each work part-time?

This query is based upon how a lot they intend to earn, spend and make investments over the following 5-8 years. Let’s check out the place issues stand now and make some projections for his or her future.

Asset Overview

It’s uncommon that I don’t have suggestions for a Case Examine topic to vary one thing about their asset allocation, however Kat and Jay hit a house run right here! I don’t assume I’ve any edits to counsel! Right here’s why:

Money owed: $0

Crucially, Kat and Jay are fully debt-free, which opens up quite a lot of choices for them. Whenever you’re not beholden to debt, your fastened month-to-month prices may be very, very low. Mounted prices are stuff you can not change–like your lease/mortgage, insurance coverage, and so on–and if debt repayments aren’t a part of that image, you’re robotically spending much less and saving extra each single month.

Internet value: $392,517

Since they haven’t any debt to service, all of their belongings depend in the direction of their web value. Properly finished, you two!

Investments: At Vanguard

It’s apparent Kat and Jay have finished their analysis (and skim quite a lot of Frugalwoods!) as a result of their funding selections are virtually precisely what I’d do. They’ve chosen a brokerage, Vanguard, with a wonderful fame for low-fee complete market index funds. That is evident in how low the expense ratios are on all of their investments. Expense ratios are what you pay a brokerage to speculate your cash and, since they’re charges, you need them to be as little as doable.

They’re invested aggressively in virtually 100% shares, which in my view makes quite a lot of sense since they’re younger and have quite a few years earlier than they’ll be drawing down this cash. Normally, you need to make investments aggressively while you’re younger after which lower your threat publicity as you close to retirement age. The previous adage in investing is high-risk=high-reward and low-risk=low reward.

Their collection of Vanguard’s VTSAX as their main funding can also be one thing I’d do because it’s a complete market index fund, which implies they’re invested throughout the complete inventory market. This reduces threat since they’re well-diversified throughout each sector of the market. It’s the other of stock-picking whereby you restrict your self to only one or two corporations and actually hope that they don’t tank. Investing in one thing like VTSAX is the epitome of not placing all your eggs in a single basket. A great plan!

Money: In a high-yield financial savings account

Kat and Jay have their money stashed precisely the place I’d advise: in a high-yield financial savings account. Their rate of interest of 4.75% on this account is phenomenal! The one teensy observe I’ve is that they’re overbalanced on money.

Between their checking and financial savings, they’ve $44,880, which is WAY greater than they’d want in an emergency fund. An emergency fund must be round three to 6 months’ value of your spending. For Kat and Jay, this $44k is sort of what they spend in a whole yr. The downsides of getting a lot money are that: money loses worth (as a result of it doesn’t sustain with inflation) and there’s a possibility price to not having it invested out there. Having the vast majority of their money in such a high-yield financial savings account mitigates these dangers considerably, nevertheless it’s nonetheless an underutilization of this cash.

Technically, they need to retain simply six months’ value of dwelling bills in money and dump the remainder into their taxable funding account.

Nevertheless, given their degree of funding sophistication, I’ve to think about they’ve a cause for maintaining this a lot in money, however I did need to level it out. Once they close to the time for Jay to depart the army, they’ll need to have a very good buffer of money readily available, however since that’s at the very least 5 years away, I see no cause to take a seat on that a lot money within the meantime. However, in the event that they plan to purchase a home in 5 years? This might make sense as their downpayment financial savings.

Let’s refer again to Kat and Jay’s final ten-year aim:

Kat said they need to be “Financially unbiased, dwelling comfortably off of our investments.”

→What does that truly imply? 

Once we speak about monetary independence on this context, we imply the power to:

  1. Not must work for cash;
  2. Have sufficient invested to allow a protected charge of withdrawal to cowl all your dwelling bills;
  3. Have the power to do that till you die.

The important thing to creating this work is definitely pretty simple:

  1. It’s a must to earn a adequate amount of cash throughout your early working years;
  2. It’s a must to save and make investments the overwhelming majority of this cash;
  3. It’s a must to maintain your bills low sufficient to allow you to do that.

An individual who makes $1M per yr but in addition spends $1M per yr won’t be able to succeed in monetary independence. That particular person resides paycheck to monumental paycheck. They’re fully reliant upon their job to fund their way of life. A lay-off could be a disaster for them as a result of, regardless of having a ridiculously excessive earnings, in the event that they don’t save any of it, they don’t have anything to fall again on.

Alternatively, an individual who (like Jay & Kat) earns $78,048 per yr however solely spends $47,172 yearly, will be capable of make investments the $30,876 distinction annually. That is the amazingly basic math behind FIRE (monetary independence, retire early).

You have got two levers right here: earnings and bills.

You’ll be able to improve earnings, you may lower bills, you are able to do each.

There’s a bit extra to it because you HAVE to aggressively make investments this distinction–as Jay and Kat have finished.You can’t maintain all of this in money and count on to turn into financially unbiased. You want the compounding curiosity of spending many a long time invested within the inventory market.

Over time, historic fashions point out that the market returns a roughly 7% annual common. In fact previous efficiency doesn’t promise future success, however, it’s all we’ve got to go on. That’s why I query Kat and Jay’s overbalance on money. Whereas the 4.75% rate of interest their money makes in its high-yield financial savings account is sweet, historical past signifies that cash will carry out higher for you within the inventory market (once more, a ~7% annual return on common, over many a long time).

Residing Off Your Investments

This implies you might have sufficient invested out there that you simply’re in a position to withdraw a protected share yearly to cowl your dwelling bills. So once more, however two variables: how a lot you spend and the way a lot you might have invested. People quibble about what share constitutes a “protected charge of withdrawal,” however essentially the most generally cited is 4%.

How to do that math:

4% of your investments = the quantity you may withdraw to reside on yearly

If we have a look at Kat and Jay’s present full web value of $392,517, 4% of that’s $15,700 per yr. Primarily based on their present spending degree of $47,172, that’s not sufficient for them to reside on. We will do backwards math to find out how a lot they’d want in an effort to spin off $47k a yr. That reply is ~$1.2M (4% of $1.2M = $48k).

Whereas that’s the quantity for as we speak, it’s robust to mission into the long run as a result of there are such a lot of unknowns in Kat and Jay’s state of affairs, together with:

  • Jay’s annual wage for the following 5-8 years
  • Kat’s annual wage for the following 5-8 years
  • What the inventory market will do over the following 5-8 years
  • Their post-military stateside annual spending, which may change dramatically relying upon:
    • In the event that they’re paying for their very own medical health insurance
    • The place they determine to cool down
    • In the event that they purchase a house
    • How a lot their lease/mortgage is within the US
    • Inflation

In gentle of that, we will’t exactly mannequin out precisely what their monetary state of affairs shall be in 5-8 years, however we will completely do some back-of-the-envelope math to provide them a way of course.

To do that, I used my favourite compound curiosity calculator:

I enter the quantity Kat and Jay at present have invested out there ($347,637) in addition to the quantity they’re in a position to make investments every month ($2,573) assuming they make investments their full $30,876 annual distinction between their earnings and bills. I went with a flat 7% market return.

Listed below are the outcomes:

If the market returns 7% annually and Kat and Jay proceed to speculate $30,876 yearly, they’d have ~$665k in 5 years. Let’s flip to our protected charge of withdrawal share now to see what they’d have:

4% of $665,138.69 = $26,605.54 out there to spend annually

This nonetheless wouldn’t be sufficient to cowl their present degree of bills, however, one in every of Kat’s questions is whether or not or not they’d be capable of work part-time to make up the distinction. Completely! Incomes more cash is at all times going to make this math higher.

Situation #1: Retire from the Army in 5 Years and Enact “Coast FI”

Whereas absolutely retiring in 5 years isn’t actually doable with their present numbers, they might actually have Jay go away the army and discover part-time jobs that pay sufficient to cowl their dwelling bills.

The thought behind Coast FI is that you simply not want your fully-loaded full-time job with retirement and advantages and as an alternative, simply must earn sufficient to cowl your bills. Thus, you’re not investing for retirement or in your taxable funding account, however you’re additionally not drawing down something out of your investments. You’re letting your investments “coast” and develop till they’re substantial sufficient to enact a 4% withdrawal.

On this occasion, your spending immediately dictates how a lot you must earn at your job.

What Would Occur If They Retired in Eight Years As an alternative?

Kat famous that their aim is 5 to eight years, so let’s bump the timeline out three years and see what the calculator says:

With the entire identical variables as above, and three years longer out there, the image adjustments dramatically:

4% of $914,086.75 = $36,563.47

This brings Kat and Jay quite a bit nearer to their present spending degree. The problem right here, once more, is that we don’t know what their incomes or the market will do throughout this time interval. Nevertheless, they’ll make the most of this calculator to find out how they’re progressing in the direction of their aim.

Will They Run Out Of Cash Earlier than They Die?

The subsequent query Kat and Jay must reply is whether or not or not they’d run out of cash earlier than they die. To grapple with that, I flip to the Wealthy, Broke or Lifeless? calculator, which units out to reply simply this question:

As we will see, if Jay and Kat retired at age 37 and lived to age 90, they’d have an 89% probability of not working out of cash earlier than they died. I don’t love that success charge. I personally am extra comfy with one thing like a 98% – 100% probability of success, however once more, all of that is theoretical and we will’t know exactly what’s going to occur.

Social Safety?

One other main variable right here is Social Safety. Kat and Jay don’t know their anticipated Social Safety payout, which may change the above calculation by fairly a bit. In the event that they’d like to do that math on their very own, they’ll enter their anticipated SS within the above calculator underneath the part “further earnings” together with the age at which they count on to begin taking SS.

Kat and Jay can work out their anticipated Social Safety advantages by following these directions on retrieve their earnings tables from ssa.gov (the federal government’s Social Safety web site).

Can Kat & Jay Attain FI in 5-8 Years?

The ultimate reply is that we don’t know. What we do know is that Kat and Jay are completely on the fitting path for attaining Monetary Independence. They’re doing all the fitting issues by:

  • Sustaining a very good wage
  • Retaining their bills low
  • Properly and aggressively investing the distinction between their earnings and bills
  • Avoiding debt

→In the event that they proceed on this path, they are going to finally attain Monetary Independence, little doubt about it.

When precisely that shall be depends upon quite a few variables we don’t know proper now, which I articulated above:

  • Jay’s annual wage for the following 5-8 years
  • Kat’s annual wage for the following 5-8 years
  • What the inventory market will do over the following 5-8 years
  • Their post-military stateside annual spending, which may change dramatically relying upon:
    • In the event that they’re paying for their very own medical health insurance
    • The place they determine to cool down
    • In the event that they purchase a house
    • How a lot their lease/mortgage is within the US
    • Inflation
  • Their anticipated Social Safety payouts
  • In the event that they’d love to do Coast FI or pursue full FIRE

Kat subsequent requested: If we’re not on observe to succeed in FI in 5-8 years, what do we have to in the reduction of on to attain this aim?

I refer Kat again to my oversimplification of FIRE math and the 2 levers she and Jay can influence:

  1. Revenue
  2. Bills

If Kat finds a job that works with their way of life, that will surely pace up their progress in the direction of FI. However, because it stands, in the event that they’re keen to increase their timeline and have Jay work longer, she doesn’t must get a job. It’s actually all about how aggressive they need to be with these two variables.

If their final precedence is to succeed in full FIRE in 5-8 years, then Kat wants to seek out the highest-paying job she will be able to, they each must work as many hours as they are often paid for and they should lower their spending to the bone.

That’s the acute model and it’s however one possibility. The opposite choices all fall someplace in between. There’s no proper or flawed right here, it’s only a query of what they need most:

  1. Do they need work/life stability now and an extended timeline to FI?
  2. Or, do they need to work nonstop for the following 5-8 years in an effort to absolutely retire of their 30s?

Kat’s Query #3: What sort of paid work ought to I pursue subsequent? Any solutions for timezone-flexible distant work?

See above: the highest-paying she will be able to discover in the event that they need to FIRE ASAP. By way of distant work, that is actually a growth time for that. By way of which job, I defer to the clever Frugalwoods readers who’ve charted these waters already.

I don’t know precisely what Kat’s work historical past is, however she talked about she’s been a author previously. In my expertise as a contract author for numerous magazines and on-line publications, this can be a fully timezone-flexible job. The consumer doesn’t care what time of day you’re writing at, they only needs the piece delivered by deadline.

Freelance writing doesn’t pay very effectively, nevertheless it might be one thing for Kat to discover as an add-on to a different job. Since she doesn’t want the advantages of a full-time place, she may cobble collectively quite a few freelance gigs. That being stated, if she did discover a US-based employer with an identical 401k/403b retirement plan, that will surely assist with their FIRE math.

At current, Kat shouldn’t be eligible to contribute to her personal IRA since she doesn’t have earned earnings; however, she may look into opening a spousal IRA.

Kat’s Query #4: How can Jay and I higher join throughout occasions once we’re on reverse ends of the work/life stability spectrum?

It’s so arduous to really feel at odds along with your partner’s schedule and power degree. I ponder in the event that they’ve thought-about establishing an evenings/weekends schedule that may allow them to each get what they want from their time collectively?

For instance, perhaps Saturday mornings are designated for them to hike along with the understanding that Jay wants Saturday afternoons to decompress and watch a film. Maybe by articulating how they need to divide up their time they’ll be capable of come to some settlement on what’ll work greatest for every of them.

Moreover, Kat famous that quite a lot of their time collectively is used to organize for the following week. If she’s not working, I ponder if she would possibly think about shifting all of that prep work to throughout the weekdays when Jay is at work? Laundry, home cleansing, errands, meal prep, and so on may all happen whereas Jay’s at work in order that the weekends are reserved solely without spending a dime/leisure time collectively.

Abstract

  1. Maintain doing what you’re doing. You’ll attain FIRE finally in case you proceed on this path.
  2. Decide how vital the 5-8 yr FIRE timeline is:
    1. If FIRE-ing ASAP is the precedence, Kat must get a well-paying job, you must lower your spending to the bone and shovel cash into your investments.
    2. If Coast FI in a number of years is interesting, think about what part-time jobs you would possibly each get pleasure from working to cowl your bills.
    3. There are infinite potentialities right here and it’s best to really feel assured that you’ve got the idea to assist whichever path you select.
  3. Check out how a lot money you might have readily available and be certain that it is smart along with your timeline for leaving the army, shopping for a home, and so on.
  4. Contemplate shifting all prep/family work to the weekdays to order the weekends without spending a dime/leisure time.
  5. Contemplate making a weekend schedule that ensures each of you’re getting what you want out of your downtime collectively.

Okay Frugalwoods nation, what recommendation do you might have for Kat? We’ll each reply to feedback, so please be at liberty to ask questions!

Would you want your personal Case Examine to look right here on Frugalwoods? Apply to be an on-the-blog Case Examine topic right here. Rent me for a personal monetary session right here. Schedule an hourlong or 30-minute name with merefer a buddy to me right hereschedule a free 15-minute name to be taught extra or e mail me with questions (liz@frugalwoods.com).

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